BARAKA BASHMENT

WOMEN HAVE THE MIC

13 Responses to “WOMEN HAVE THE MIC”

1. UmmZaid Says:
   January 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pm

   Salaam ‘Alaikum

   Well, I think sometimes men who do want to improve things for women end up marginalizing us. Like thinking they have center stage, or really… not even thinking about it at all. It’s just taken for granted.

   I don’t think men should stay out of women’s issues, b/c we’re supposed to be helpers to one another. For myself, I’ve found that there are some scholars or brothers who can speak very eloquently about certain women’s issues and get those messages across and educate or raise awareness or whatever. And that’s important.

   I wish men would turn and examine themselves the way that men examine us. I’m sure you know there are so many books aimed at Muslim women, about hijab, marriage, motherhood, or general religious practice. And some of them are simply manuals, but some of them are “shame” books, like “Sister! Cover Your Beauty!” But even from the other perspective, you have brothers taking up hijab as their mantle, or some other woman’s issue as their mantle, but seemingly unwilling to examine men’s issues — or at least issues that largely seem to affect men in this country. For example, where is the book: “Brother! Stop Selling Liquor and Porno in Your Corner Store!” or books wherein Muslim men discuss the angers or frustrations or cultural ideas that lead so many to be unfair or cruel to their wives? Where are the panels where we discuss all these Muslim brothers who are out there dating or whatever… things like that. I mean there are a lot of things that seeem to affect mostly men that men can be talking about. Even in clothing, there are people (men and women, to be fair) who get really angry at sisters who wear hijabs with logos on them (they exist, like CK or YSL), or who wear designer clothes, and shame that woman, but say nothing to the brother who’s come to pray in his designer gear or his tee shirt with a blazing logo on it. Is what’s good for the goose good for the gander? It’s a small thing, but it’s part of a larger mentality that puts all of the responsibility for honor, virtue, and this zuhd that we idealize on the shoulders of women. A man’s honor should be something more than whther or not his female relatives are in hijab or conducting themselves chastely. You know what I mean?

   I am so rambling! I’m so sorry.

   So how can men help? Really, I think by using whatever privilege and place afforded to them simply by virtue of their gender to advocate for women in the “men’s” space. For example, using the access and place you get in the masjid as a man to fight for spaces for women — either on the board or committees, or for better prayer spaces, for making space for women in the newsletter, or women speakers, teachers, etc. to be included as part of the general community education and activity programs. And then stepping back and letting the women take control of those activities, or don’t interfere with them acting independently (like the whole “Well, sister, you are on the committee, but I think that I, as an engineer, know about this better than you, lowly housewife).

   To question the tradition of women cooking for the community as a whole and caring for the community’s children during times when we’re supposed to be worshipping, to bring up these ideas that are “progressive” to many of our sisters and brothers like babysitting services, or having men cook (or clean) when we eat together as a community, instead of falling back on these trad’l roles where the women cook and clean and the men sit in the “men’s room” drinking tea and socializing, without the “messy business” of children running around. Whenver I attend these types of functions, I think of our Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace) and how he took care of his own sandals, and helped around the house.

   I’m not sure how I feel about quotas. What if it’s supposed to be four and four, but there are only two women with the character or experience to sit on that board, but six men? (Of course, what if there are six women and only two men? That’s a little radical for a lot of us though, innit?) But at the same time, I wonder if, you don’t have a minimum, say “At least two women on the committee” or something, if it won’t just end up being a boy’s club b/c that’s the way it’s always been and people aren’t being forced to think differently.

   What if there were quotas for other things, like only so many from X ethnic group, or X number of spots reserved for non-doctors and non-engineers or something like that? Our masjid committees and boards often leave out “working folks,” blue collar people, as well.

   When we are writing, or running a site or store to *stop* mixing “women’s issues” with “family issues.” As if only women are, and should be, interested in raising children in Islam or marriage. “Family issues” should be a concern of both genders, but the way that we do it now, it’s always grouped together with “gender” issues (gender being code for “women” amongst us, it seems). When a conference or seminar is about family, not to put flowers and roses on the fliers and only invite women. Are women the sole caregivers of children? If men are told that they’re not supposed to be interested in children and marriage issues, they won’t be.

   Hmmm.

2. Robert Says:
   January 28th, 2006 at 6:34 am

   Yes, UmmZaid, yes. This is very important stuff you’re saying.
   I’m hearing you say a few things:
   1. It’d nice , is necessary, for men to reflect publically on their own adab and ways of being in the world. Men should be reflecting on issues that directly effect or are perpetrated by men. Be it liquor stores, clothing, etc…
   2. Men should take notice of assuming center stage on women’s issues is inherently theirs and OK to do. There are times when it is not and we should be deferring to women for leadership and guidance.
   3. Watch out for the double standards. If you don’t think women should be wearing logos on hijab, make sure the brothers keep to the same. This may also be along the lines of be the person you’d like other people to be.
   4. Men should question the supposed inherentcy of women cooking meals for events and being the sole child care givers. I absolutely agree with this. Of course I come from the role switching mindset where ALL roles are rotated on some timely basis: care giving, cooking, serving, leading, etc…
   5. “Family issues” are NOT solely “women’s issues.” As it stands now family issues are catered to supposedly women’s interests (flower’s and babies and food and all things pretty and nice). For me this is wrong on many fronts. 1. Family issues are for just that, the ENTIRE family. 2. Reducing women’s fancies to flowers and nicey nice is reductive, patronizing, and ultimately a fallacy.
   6. Community boards should reflect diversity of all varieties and not just gender.

   Well thanks UmmZaid for all this. If you see I have taken too much of a liberty in teasing out some of your ideas, please let me know. I’m trying to generate a list here, which is why I did so. Hope you are well and up and running.
   B

3. restive Says:
   January 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pm

   Salaam,

   I feel sad in my heart when I’m around men for too long. This may very well be b/c I’m healing from years spent around “radical” activist men and “spiritual” new agers who seem better at talking equality than practicing it — an unfortunate choice on my part in many ways, but one that definitely has had its merits as well. It beats spending your life at a desk or in front of the tube.

   To address your questions though: in my view, the unifying problem that all women (as well as trans and intersexed people in general) have to deal with on a human level is what a friend of mine refers to as “male-identified men” — and that frequently includes “feminist” men. Most rapists? Men. Most transgender murderers? Men. Most doctors who operate on intersexed children? Men. Sorry if I’m being harsh or overly simplistic, but this is what comes up for me when these kinds of questions are asked.

   In terms of staying out of it: it seems to me like there’s times where women and men need to come together, and there’s times that we need to be apart. (I want to emphasize strongly though that I agree with what UmmZaid said as to men not staying out of women’s issues b/c we’re supposed to help each other.) That being said, I do feel that women need to continue to create genuine healing spaces for ourselves, while not being separatist in philosophy. As long as it doesn’t go back to the way things were in some feminist circles in the 1970s and become all about fitting the right criteria for being “in” — no femmes, butches, women of color or trannies allowed, sorry, don’t let the door hit ya — then this could be tremendously helpful. So to some degree, I feel that there are things that men shouldn’t be a part of, at least for a good while. Ideally, men would create similar kinds of healing spaces in a way that aren’t about dissing on women behind their backs, and then maybe we’d start to have a true community (or communities) of the heart.

   Many of us need to heal our hearts first though (myself included) — and to get there, we need to listen to each other without judgement. As many men are either willingly or institutionally part of the system that oppresses women, I do think that it would help things greatly if men took the first step (or second, or third) in this listening process.

   In terms of quotas: well sure, but it’s not going to matter much if people don’t address the underlying issues. That’s the difference between tokenism and equality.

   Lastly, not to go too far afield, but I’d also like to point out that trans and intersexed peoples (regardless of gender identification) are survivors of some of the worst forms of abuse that humanity can generate would help as well. We are mutilated, murdered, and shunned at a rate that is pretty staggering. As a gender transitioned, intersexed woman, the stories I’ve heard from people in my community (as well as what I’ve experienced myself) are beyond abhorrent.

   Resources:

   www.isna.org
   www.rememberingourdead.org
   www.survivorproject.org

   best,

   restive

4. restive Says:
   January 28th, 2006 at 2:28 pm

   I’d also like to point out that trans and intersexed peoples (regardless of gender identification) are survivors of some of the worst forms of abuse that humanity can generate would help as well.

   s/b

   I’d also like to point out that men realizing that trans and intersexed peoples (regardless of gender identification) are survivors of some of the worst forms of abuse that humanity can generate would help as well.

5. Robert Says:
   January 29th, 2006 at 5:41 am

   Thanks restive for the comments! And thanks for the links. I am making a space for them and others on the site.

   First, can you explain “male-identified men” a little more?

   Second, what I’m getting from your post is something like:
   1.Women, men, and trans- intersexed communities should have provided/accesible spaces for themselves to reflect and such. Especially when the goal of which is to bring the cultivation back to the larger umma, where there is understood to be a free flow of communication.
   2. Since men are in some way a part of the institutionalized oppression of women, they should be making steps to rectify the situation, be it learning about it, or AT THE LEAST coming to understand that there IS an issue that requires immediate attention.
   3. Trans- and intergendered communities are radically underrepresented in our umma (and the world in general) and that AT LEAST an appreciation of the issues surrounding this community is needed.

   It is my firm belief that Islam has already imbedded in it a humanity that provides space and concern for all people interested in the identified path of Islam and the greater islam stretching far beyond its loosely defined boarders. I believe that regardless of human endeavors to understand other human endeavors at law making and community defining, one quickly realizes that these are in fact human endeavors and that as such are inherently biased and limited in scope. Understanding this is in accordance with the Qur’an: “They [humans] know only the outer surface of this world’s life, whereas of the ultimate things they are unaware” (30:7).

6. hijabiapprentice Says:
   January 29th, 2006 at 2:17 pm

   asalaamu alaikum. as usual ummzaid took the words out of my mouth (shukran ukhtee). i really think our community could benefit from each gender taking responsibility for their own issues a bit more. i typically take with a grain of salt the books that are written by men telling me how to please my husband, hijab, etc when we have rampant issues within in the brothers side of the community like those ummzaid mentioned; in addition to many other issues like polygamy abuse, brothers not fulfilling marital contracts, triple talaq issues, and not following the sunnah in regards to divorce. i know women who have languished for years in abusive marriages because the “husband” would not divorce the women properly and i think to myself why aren’t the other brothers telling this man what he’s doing isn’t right?

   that was a bit of a ramble, sorry. basically i am cosigning ummzaid. oppressive behaviour(which has been mentioned many times within the qur’an as a sin, needs to be kept in check brother to brother within our community.

   ma’a salaamah

7. restive Says:
   January 29th, 2006 at 7:51 pm

   >Thanks restive for the comments! And thanks for the links. I am making a space for them and others on the site.

   You’re most welcome.

   >First, can you explain “male-identified men” a little more?

   Sure. The quick definition is “men who don’t check their priviledge.” More intricately, it’s:

   1) a way of addressing the kettle of worms that opens up when one tries to address male priviledge as it pertains to trans/intersexed peoples — for example, someone who has gender transitioned “male” to female may or may not experience male priviledge in the same way as a male-raised person who identifies as male. Further, someone who has transitioned “female” to male may or may not have the same relationship with male priviledge as above-referenced male-raised person.

   2) in my experience, there is a cultural/contextual subtext to this term as it pertains to male allies in the struggle who don’t check the own priviledge. For example, “so-and-so thinks they are an ally, but in practice, their male identification gets in the way of their being an ally.” I’m not sure that the solution to this problem is for men who ID as male to, for example, to pretend that they’re genderqueer or trans; but what I do feel strongly is that unexamined male identification can lead to a reinforcing of patriarchy in one’s thoughts and actions.

   In any case, sorry for the long response; explaining it takes a little doing.

8. Robert Says:
   January 30th, 2006 at 6:21 am

   hijabiapprentice: Thanks for the comments. Thease books you are talking about sound very creepy. It reminds me of the article re. a Zaytuna retreat posted on MWU! a while back: Zaytuna’s Smelly Kebabs. This thing with men not checking their fellow brothers’ actions is not so simple I imagine as we may hope. It’s a bit like addictions: a person has to WANT to change before they can even begin to change. We need to start showing some real benefits to changing relationships towards/with women, before people realize it’s something they should work on themselves to acheive. It has to be made REAL CLEAR that women’s issues ARE men’s issues, for men to start engaging. While this may be true, however, this may also lead to men doing what’s best for men once again. Which is why I posted this in the first place…

   restive: Absolutely, take as long as you like. Your comments re. M-F and F-M relationships to male privelage resonate here. With regards to “male identified men” checking their privelage, I htink we need to both push this agenda, but also really take into consideration what this means for men. (I’m going to use the term “men” to replace “male ident. men” from now on).

   I’m going to speak rather frank here for a bit and return to its implications in a few.

   I personally have felt the experience of stepping back, or checking the podium on which this society has granted me, and know the experience can be very scary. I think men fear a loss of their voice. Really fear it. There is a feeling that if they/we give in a little (i.e. make room for “others” to speak), we will loose all our power. The irony in that feeling is obvious, but I think the ends by which men will go to retain this power and voice (war, rape, mental abuse, manipulation, subjugation of ANYTHING that is perceived as a challenge to our dominance, be it homosexuality, empowered women, etc…) shows just how deep the fear runs. Being an activist yourself, I’m sure you’ve seen/experienced some of the backlash of men who have attempted to check their privelage and acted out in some pretty interesting ways when it got too much for them.

   Mind you, I’m not attempting to facilitate a pity party, and maybe I have jumped into this side of the discussion too quickly (this is supposed to be about women right?), but I do think this is all relevant.

   Does anyone have experiences of men trying to check themselves and how when it has gotten too much they acted out in ways a bit creepy, “shown their true colors” so to speak? (Though I think that phrase doesn’t really apply).

9. restive Says:
   January 30th, 2006 at 10:11 am

   >Being an activist yourself, I’m sure you’ve seen/experienced some of the backlash of men who have attempted to check their privelage and acted out in some pretty interesting ways when it got too much for them.

10. restive Says:
    January 30th, 2006 at 10:17 am

    whoops, I think I must have passed some funky character by accident.

    re backlash from activist men: now, what would give you that idea? in any case…yes, it happens a lot, for sure. i’m going to back out now for a bit to give a chance for more folks to speak.

11. sume Says:
    January 30th, 2006 at 2:20 pm

    I tend to agree with UmmZaid in that sometimes I feel women are often pushed to the background. It’s almost as if we are ‘being rescued’. There are times when I feel women voices either aren’t being heard or aren’t being takens seriously. Another thing I’ve noticed is that some men seem to make the assumption that women want to BE men and perhaps perceive this as some kind of threat. Maybe this is why we are sometimes marginalized. I don’t think women want to ‘replace men’ or be seen as ‘the damsel in distress’ but simply want the fairness
    afforded us by Islam.

    Men should absolutely NOT stay out of it. I think that this has to be a true partnership in or it doesn’t really work. Some men have helped a great deal by speaking out publically about women’s issues. Just as importantly, men help by practicing fairness inside the home among family members.

    When the father treats both the daughter and the son and the wife justly without the double standards, this gets passed on to the next generation. I have seen cases where men proclaim their belief in fair treatment but don’t practice it in their own homes. When you have a family where the daughter is told she must be chaste and that her value lies with her virginity, but the son is allowed to run wild, you see the same attitude leak into society. Attitudes have to changed from within society as well as from without. Otherwise, you get what you see now and that is laws or rules that are either not enforced
    or that don’t really have any real affect.

    For the most part, I echo UmmZaid’s sentiments as well.

    While the focus of your questions seem to be on what men need to do. We can’t forget that we was women have to step up the plate putting strong, high caliber, knowledgeable women in the forefront. Men can go a long way in helping to create and support the next generation of strong women role models for the following generations.

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